Karol S. Gleave Oral History

This is an oral history project for a media history class at Brigham Young University.  I interviewed my grandma, Karol Shipp Gleave about her use of media throughout her life.  The interview also talks about her growing up experience.  She lives in Orem, Utah and is now 77 years old, even though she looks like she's still in her 40's! (Below is a picture of my mom (left) and grandma Gleave (right))

Karol S. Gleave Oral History Project

Interview with Karol Gleave

Date of Interview: November 18, 2010; Orem, Utah

Interviewer: Jenna Nelson

Transcriber: Jenna Nelson

Begin Audio recording.

Nelson: This is the Karol Shipp Gleave Oral History Project, session number one with Karol on November 18.  We are here in her home, 520 W. 10 N. in Orem, Utah.  The interviewer is Jenna Nelson, Brigham Young University.

Nelson: Just to get a little background, when you were born?

Gleave: Well I was born on May 22, 1933.

Nelson: And you were born…

Gleave: I was born in Joseph, Utah, at home.  Did you ever know the house in Joseph where Aunt Dean used to live?

Nelson: I think my mom showed me.

Gleave: She pointed it out. Well that’s where my parent’s lived and that’s where I was born.

Nelson: With like a midwife?

Gleave: Uh Huh a midwife, and then Dr. Dewey was her doctor, so they used to make house visits in those days.

Nelson: So you grew up in Joseph?

Gleave: I did until I was seven.

Nelson: Is that when you moved?

Gleave: Then my grandmother I think died about that time, my dad’s mother, Grandma Shipp.  And so my dad bought the farm down where they lived.  So he bought a farm down there and there was a home there and we lived there and had a big old barn.  We were so excited.  And then Aunt Dean and Uncle Phil bought dad’s house.

Nelson: Did you have animals and everything?

Gleave: No, they just used it for hay and stuff like that.

Nelson: I didn’t know that!

Gleave:  We had a rope.  They boys tied a rope up in the rafters and we would swing.  It certainly took me a long time to work up the nerve to do this, but we’d swing from one side clear over to the other side and then we would get on the landing and swing back.  One day it broke and down I went. (Laughs)

Nelson: Oh No! (Laughs)  And you finally had worked up the courage!

Gleave: Yeah, we thought the barn was pretty exciting. My dad used to raise cattle and we always had cats and dogs around.

Nelson: You already explained a little about the barn and everything, but what was it like growing up there?

Gleave: Well it was country.  I was seven so I can’t remember a lot then, but I know I used to play outside a lot with Jack (her brother) and go shooting guns with him.  He had a place where he would go hike up to in the hills up above grandma’s house.  So I used to do that a lot, because mother kept Darlene inside.

Nelson:  How come?

Gleave: Because she had freckles and she just didn’t like to let her get out in the sun.  So any outdoor chores or things like that, like mowing the lawn, or washing the cars, I got to do it. 

Nelson: So you had to do all of that?

Gleave: Yes, so then I would go inside and they would have been alone inside all day and kind of left me out of things and I used to get mad (Laughs).

Nelson: So did you mother keep her in so that she didn’t get too many freckles?

Gleave: Well in those days, freckles were… well not like today where freckles are cute and very accepted, but in those days they weren’t.

Nelson: That’s so interesting.  So after you were seven you moved into that house?

Gleave: Yes until my dad died, we were there.  I had to ride the bus to school.

Nelson: How far away was school?

Gleave: About 20 minutes to Monroe.  At that age (seven) we had a schoolhouse in Joseph.  I wish they hadn’t torn it down.  I went there until about the fifth grade and then went down to Ellsinore in the sixth grade and went to school there until tenth grade and then we went over to Monroe.  That’s where the high school was.

Nelson: When was the first time you remember using a form of media?  So for instance like the radio?

Gleave:  Well we always had radio.  The boys would dash in off the school bus to listen to… what was that?  Jack Armstrong or something like that.  So that’s really all we had, we didn’t have telephone either until I was what in Junior High?

Nelson:  How was it when you finally got a telephone?

Gleave: Well when we got a telephone it was on a party line.  So there was about five or six people on the party line and you’d have a certain ring.  So mother’s number was, 527R2.  So it would ring twice and that was our number. And that lasted for quite a few years before they got private lines.

Nelson: Interesting!  So did you have a favorite radio station that you liked to listen to?

Gleave: Probably not when I was young.  I listened to the Grand Ole Pry. 

Nelson: And did you have a favorite band or person on there?

Gleave: I didn’t really; I wasn’t that big into it.  You know grandpa lived and died for the radio.

Nelson: He loved his bluegrass! (Laughs)

Gleave: But we used to have people in the area that would play at dances and things. There were some different guys that would play music.

Nelson: Where they pretty good?

Gleave: Yeah! Cowboy style, which suited grandpa! (Laughs)

Nelson: When did you meet grandpa?

Gleave: Well, I always knew him as a kid because he was… Well you know Aunt Dean? She was the oldest of his siblings married my dad’s brother.  She came to Joseph to teach school and so they married.  Stan was kind of around the family quite a bit, but he was a pest and I couldn’t stand him (Laughs).

Nelson: And then it turned to love.

Gleave: And I used to drive the tractor.  I’d get up at four in the morning to drive the tractor out in the hay field and he was working.  He was a friend of my brother, Rod.  He was the one that died.  You’ve probably heard that story.

Nelson: Well what happened exactly again?

Gleave:  He was working for a power company, Utah Power and Light.  And he was up the canyon.  He was on one of those poles, those big ones.  Well the electricity jumped from another pole over to his pole and it just went down through his body. It just completely electrocuted him.  It went clear through and burned his kidneys, one side of his body.  If he had lived, he would have probably had to have amputations.

Nelson: How old were you when that happened?

Gleave: I was married. I was actually pregnant with Jody so I was about 28 I think.  And he hadn’t married.

Nelson: I’m assuming that was a pretty hard time for your family?

Gleave: Yes it was terrible. My mother sat by his side for a week.  It was really hard for her.

Nelson: So he didn’t die instantly?

Gleave: No it took over a week.

Nelson:  That would be hard. 

Gleave: Yes.

Nelson: Not to be insensitive, but to go back to what you were saying the radio.  You said that the radio was all you had.  Is that how you got your news?

Gleave: Yes, that’s how we found out about the war, about Pearl Harbor in 1941, December 7, 1941.  That’s how we got all of our news. But you know we’d always go to movies and they always had a newsreel before the movies about that war. That’s all we had, it’s not like today where we have everybody reporting, more than we need.

Nelson: Now it’s 24/7 and little things make big news.  Do you remember where you were when you heard about the war?

Gleave: Not specifically, I don’t. I was about seven or eight.

Nelson: Yes, that’s pretty young.  Well do you remember reading the newspaper, or did your dad always have a newspaper?

Gleave: Oh yeah, he was always reading the newspaper.

Nelson: Which newspaper would you always get?

Gleave: Oh the Tribune and the Deseret News.

Nelson: Did you have any magazines that you liked to look at?

Gleave: Probably Redbook. It was one of the only magazines in those days.  It’s not like today.

Nelson: Redbook?  What’s that one about?

Gleave: It’s still out; they still are printing them today.  They always had a story and I can’t remember much about them anymore.

Nelson: I was talking to my mom and she was telling me how when you all would go and visit grandma Shipp, that they were still on the carbon line?  That they still used coal to heat things? What was that like?

Gleave: Well we always had electricity. But, until we put a furnace in we had to heat with coal stoves.  And so she had a stove and she had to cook all the meals on the coal stove; bottling fruit and everything. 

Nelson: When did she get a furnace?

Gleave: When she remodeled they had one.  But yeah they had a big old coal stove.  I used to love to rub up against it.  I missed having that. 

Nelson: Did it do a pretty good job of heating up the house?

Gleave: Oh yeah, except that the bedrooms were always really cold.  The heat mainly stayed around the central part of the house. 

Nelson:  When was the first time you guys got a T.V.?

Gleave: Not until after we were married and had about four kids. I think Mike was born and then we got one.

Nelson: Was it just a black and white T.V.?

Gleave: Uh huh, black and white.

Nelson: What did you guys think about that?

Gleave: It was pretty exciting! They had cartoons and yeah that was pretty exciting.

Nelson: Did you have a certain show that you liked to watch?

Gleave: Well, I probably didn’t have a lot of time in those years. Stan had finished school and then we moved to Annabelle and we bought a house out on the way to the farm.  And then we traded houses with Grandpa Gleave, and that’s where grandpa grew up, in that house.  But we only lived there for a few years.  That’s when we got the T.V. was when we lived there.  Then we went up to Orem for a year and then Stan wanted to get his masters so we went up to there and then in the summer we went up to Logan and then to Albuquerque.

Nelson:  So you were kind of bouncing around everywhere.

Gleave: Yes.  And then back because I was pregnant with Rod.  And then I went in April because I hadn’t been to see a doctor the whole time and decided I wanted to go back to Richfield to have the baby.  So Stan moved me home and we lived in that house there in town, it was actually right next door to Uncle Phil and Aunt Dean.  So we lived there for the summer and then went to California. 

Nelson:  For how many years?

Gleave: Fourteen. And the moved down to Corona and then to Orange, the city of Orange.  We were there three years and then moved out to Chino.  Grandpa just had to get back to more country and then we were there for nine years. 

Nelson:  And then you moved back to Provo right?

Gleave: Yep, Rod was fourteen.

Nelson:  When did you get a color T.V.?

Gleave: When we moved to Orange.  We bought a house, like an old three bedroom house and it had a bonus room over the garage, which we didn’t ever get finished, but we still fixed it up for the kids to sleep in. And we got new furniture there for the living room.  We got a new T.V. that was like a console with the radio in it and the T.V. and it was color, so exciting!

Nelson: Yeah?

Gleave: And I remember moving that out to Chino, and that was an old house that we had to remodel.  We had it there, because I remember I had to build it in by the fireplace, I remember I kind of built it in to that.  And we had that and actually moved it up to Provo.  I don’t know where it went after that.

Nelson: Do you remember what kind of T.V. it was?

Gleave: Probably RCA.

Nelson: Was there a certain person that you liked to watch on T.V., like for instance with the news?

Gleave: Back in those days I hardly ever watched it because I was so busy. I couldn’t tell you then, but I could tell you whom I like to watch now.

Nelson: Whom do you like to watch now?

Gleave: I like to watch Channel 5, Matt Lauer and Meredith Vera.  But I like Fox News with Bill O’ Reilly and Hannity, I watch that.

Gleave: Probably World War II.

Nelson: How come?

Gleave:  It was just such a part of our life.  It just seemed like we were so involved in that war; the rationing and a lot of guys from our town were in the war.  The other wars have been different, that one was really a big deal. 

Nelson: Yes I can see where that would be a big deal.  How do you feel media has affected your life?

Gleave: Well there’s just so much of it and its just all there.  I mean you just know everything, everything’s right on.  Probably too much really (laughs).  Like all the political stuff, you have to know everything that goes on.

Nelson: It’s true, media is always around us, and it’s almost hard to imagine life without it. 

Gleave: It’s just too much.  People can’t live their lives or anything, like with the new wedding engagement announcement of Prince William and Caitlin.  I mean she will never be able to have her freedom, you know they’ll just follow her all over, that’s what they did with Diana.  It’s just like the stars can’t have a life.  I don’t get too much attention here, but…

Nelson: But the stars do huh? (Laughs) Where do you think the media will go from here?

Gleave: Oh heavens, I mean after computers, and cell phones, and the blackberries.  (Laughs).  I can’t imagine, I just can’t imagine.  I mean how could it go any farther?  It’s just unreal.  It’s just like the cell phones.  They are changing every year you can’t even keep up with them.  I mean I stick with what I know, but I see people using those iphones.  Do you have one?

Nelson: No, they’re too fancy for me.

Gleave: My friend has one and she is constantly playing with it.  Texting?  I don’t know, what’s going to come next? I don’t know.

Personal Code of Ethics

1.      Truth and credibility:

-“Journalism’s first obligation is to the truth.”

 I must remember that a journalists’ first priority is to the truth, but they must also keep the public's best interest in mind. In class we called it "functional truth," which is required to help a community to do just that, function.

-“ Seek Truth and Report It.  Journalists should be honest, fair and courageous in gathering, reporting and interpreting information.” –SPJ Code of Ethics

-So truth... isn't it about time? Shouldn't we as journalists try our hardest to always tell the truth.. the whole truth and nothing but the truth? The answer is yes.

-“Journalism is just piecing together facts,” which means that we as journalists need to find all the facts to create the whole picture.  This quote reminds me of a jigsaw puzzle, where all the pieces have to be found in order to create a good outcome.

2.      Public Service, giving a voice to the voiceless:

-“Where does discipline end? Where does cruelty begin? Somewhere between these, thousands of children inhabit a voiceless hell. “ Francois Mauriac

I took a Global issues class in college and learned just how many are left without a voice.  So many children and women and men are left to endure painful experiences without the hope of being heard.  This however, does not only happen in foreign countries, but in our very same communities.  A journalist can serve its public and bring that voice to the silent ones.

-“I am the voice of the voiceless:
Through me, the dumb shall speak;
Till the deaf world’s ear be made to hear
The cry of the wordless weak.” –Part of Ella Wheeler Wilcox’s poem

It’s time to help those in need.  Lift up the hands that hang down!

3.      Watchdog

-“Be vigilant and courageous about holding those with power accountable.”

This goes along with the last point, but it’s one of my favorite parts of journalism.  We are paid to help protect those around us.  Without the media, people could get away with a lot of corruption.  Journalism is just an added degree of checks and balances. 

4.      Influence for good

-          Help others to take action, to make a difference.  Raise the banner or title of liberty!  Captain Moroni raised his banner and called together his people to rally for the cause of good.  The media is to provide a way and a means for people to also take action and make a difference.  Journalists have a great power to do good and influence others for good.  They can help those around them to see truth.

5.      Responsibility:

-Journalist must be accountable for their actions.  Checking the facts and sources allows real journalism to take place.  This also couples with influence for good because of this quote.

-“With great power comes great responsibility” – Stan Lee

-Help those help themselves, by taking the responsibility seriously.  Know that with the power that we have, we can make a great change, but it takes effort.  Journalism of verification requires checking and double checking your sources, quotes, facts, information, everything.  That is the ideal... don't report it just for the sake of reporting.

6.      Independent:

-“Remain free of associations and activities that may compromise integrity or damage credibility.”

-You are not in PR! (yet)  So don’t do anything that might show favor. In journalism, you are independent from all outside forces and influences.   We need to be able to report on what is necessary without feeling like we need to walk on eggshells so that people won't stop advertising with us. I understand and know that money makes the world go round, but money shouldn't have the power to cover-up corruption or facts.  It's important that we have people willing to stand up for things that are right just because it's the right thing to do.

7.      Teacher/Light bearer:

-“Give light and people will find their own way.”- Scripps

Public journalism leads to involvement and educates the community. Now is the time for journalist to do just that... to help the people!

-“In teaching you cannot see the fruit of a day's work.  It is invisible and remains so, maybe for twenty years.”  ~Jacques Barzun

I think to think that journalists have this same effect.  Journalists can help people learn the truth and make decisions for themselves. In the end, if the journalists do their job, the community will be better off and learn make sound choices based on the facts provided, much like a teacher.

-“A teacher affects eternity; he can never tell where his influence stops.”  ~Henry Brooks Adams
-“A good teacher is like a candle - it consumes itself to light the way for others.”  ~Author Unknown

All are good quotes to just simply put journalist in the place of teacher.  You as well can have this effect on others and make a difference in the world.

8.      Don’t compromise standards (Steadfast and immoveable, always abounding in good works)

-Stay true to who you are.  In a world of shifting values, it is important that you stand strong in what you believe and know to be true.  Don’t ever compromise who you really are just to get ahead or to have the better story.  Keep your head on your shoulders and stay close to your values.

-“The word “steadfast” is used to suggest fixed in position, solid and firm, unshaken and resolute (Oxford English Dictionary Online, 2nd ed. [1989], “Steadfast”). The word “immovable” is used to indicate that a person or thing is unalterable, firmly secured, and not subject to change. It also signifies the quality of being unyielding and incapable of being diverted from one’s purpose (Oxford English Dictionary Online, “Immovable”). Thus, a person who is steadfast and immovable is solid, firm, resolute, firmly secured, and incapable of being diverted from a primary purpose or mission.” –Elder Bednar

Journalism and faith

We believe.... From a young age we learn the articles of faith. These small declarations become and make up a lot of what we believe in the LDS church.  As our testimonies grow, the doctrines and teachings of the church become something much more than just beliefs, but they become who we are.

I remember in high school talking to my friends about my standards.  They didn't understand that I was who I was, because of my beliefs.  I think as reporters it's hard to get away from that, because our beliefs become who we are.  It's just as much a part of us as the color of our skin or where we come from.  It becomes a part of world view.  As discussed in class, it's pretty much impossible to remain objective.  I will most likely always have my LDS view and spin on the stories I report (whether I know it or not.)  It just happens. I like soft news and things that are happy.  Stories that draw families closer and leave you with a warm fuzzy feeling are what I would most like to tell.  Of course that isn't purely because of my beliefs, but it does play a large part in how I would report it and what I would report. I think for me, it would be extremely hard to report on something about the church in an objective way.  My beliefs are just too deep, as well as my loyalties.Testimony-of-the-Book-of-Mormon

The question was asked, "Why do you believe reporters often have difficulties reporting about religion and faith?"  Why?  Because a lot of times you don't understand what other religions believe, how deep the culture runs or why they are the way they are. Religion is a tricky subject because it's something people feel very passionately about, because it is so much apart of who they are. When people don't understand why we are doing something, then they put it in their point of view.  Make sense?  Since I don't know exactly what Buddhist believe, then it would make it hard for me to write about them accurately.  I liked what was said in class and in the books that we should let them define themselves. The whole proposition 8 thing was a good example of others not know how to report about Mormons. A quick google search of "prop 8 mormon" brings up these results. Mormons seemed to have been targeted and pick out compared to all others protesting and supporting prop 8.  There was even an anti-mormon documentary created called 8: The Mormon Proposition.

I think it's safe to say that when people don't understand, they can't report the facts, because they don't know them! Best option, find out as much as you can about a religion you are going to report on, then come with an open mind and allow them to define who they are.

Ethically Challenged

So this last class we discussed at length...ethics.  You might think that ethics are something that's cut and dry... black or white... but no, there is definitely a lot of gray!
Here's a tribute to the King of Pop...
"They Print My Message
In The Saturday Sun
I Had To Tell Them
I Ain't Second To None

And I Told About Equality
An It's True
Either You're Wrong
Or You're Right

But, If
You're Thinkin'
About My Baby
It Doesn't Matter If You're
Black Or White"

This song works when we talk about diversity.  Since there is no such thing really as being truly "objective," having many different views in a newsroom is an extremely positive thing.  Objectivity has been brought up numerous amounts of time during class that I think the point of knowing that it's basically impossible to be objective has set in.

SO! I'm going to focus more on the other topic... which is Ethics.  Okay, ethics is super important, but it varies from person to person.  One may think that one thing is okay, while the other would rather die than report on what happened.
FOR EXAMPLE............. The tragic story of 4-year-old Ethan Stacy shocked many in Utah.  The violent couple of days that eventually led to his death were awful.  Here's where the ethics come in.  So I personally feel that ABC4 News always strives to get the best news and first.  They have one of the best if not the best content out of all the news stations.  But here is something that I did not agree with.  The Sloop's Probable Cause statements were released by the police and they were very graphic.  ABC4 decided to post them on their webpage, while another news station (KSL) chose not to.  They instead just described the statements in a tasteful manner. Now to give ABC4 credit, they did as well and then gave the option of looking at the document.  I personally agree with KSL on this one.  I wouldn't post the statements, because how are they news worthy?  What do they provide to the story?  Why does the public need to read them?

Journalist have the responsibility of being a gatekeeper.  It is up to the journalists to decide what exactly is important for the public to know and really to protect them from things they don't.  We wouldn't show dead bodies on T.V. Journalists have to use their conscience and also their common sense.

Professor Campbell gave us a list with questions to make good ethical decisions. The list gives ten questions to ask yourself when facing an ethical situation.  I think this was a great idea!  These questions really do help you to think about all the possible ramifications and what harm you could possibly bring by reporting something.  I will definitely use that list in the future.

Independence vs. Neutrality

So I feel that in class we go over the same things each time.... with a few new information tid-bits thrown in.  My thoughts... well it must be important than.  It's like in the scriptures... when they say something more than once, it's something you better remember!

So last class period we talked about independence in journalism. The New York Times did an article on this very subject that was really interesting. It talked about their independence as a paper.  The Times described independence as, "The best exhibitions of genuine, honest independence have come from journals that are not in the habit of boasting their self-righteousness.  The comments of the Republican Press upon Congressional Salary bill furnish a case in point.  They have criticized fairly and honestly, speaking of individuals and parties in a just and candid spirit.  This is true independence."
   That being said, they went further to give an example of how they have shown their independence.  I'm assuming this was an editorial or a column, but this writer backed up a candidate for mayor, because of what the mayor stood for.  The writer relates that as soon as this candidate was elected and then went back on what he said and turned his back to those who voted for him, the Times "did not hesitate to rebuke him with it's usual plainness of speech. But it was guided by reason and not by passion or caprice." The Times acted independently from their support and presented the story based on facts and not emotions.

In class we discussed the differences between neutrality and independence.... and I think I understood.. so let's just see if I can explain it.
 Neutrality= reporting just the facts, seeking out both sides... but doesn't create an opinion.
Independence= it's a "spirit and mind" thing that bases opinions off of facts.

Dictionary.com defines independence as...

in·de·pend·ence

 /ˌɪndɪˈpɛndəns/ Show Spelled[in-di-pen-duhns] Show IPA

–noun

1. Also, independency. the state or quality of being independent.

2. freedom from the control, influence, support, aid, or the like, of others.

3. Archaic . a competency. 

 

So when we compare that to independence in journalism... here are the connections I make and also what we talked about in class. "1. Also, independency. the state or quality of being independent."  In journalism this would mean that you are independent from all outside forces and influences.  In class we talked about acting independently by refusing gifts, favors, fees, etc. Also by remaining free of associations and activities that may compromise integrity or damage credibility.

What I just said also fits with "2. freedom from the control, influence, support, aid, or the like, of others." I like what was said in class that we should be vigilant and courageous about holding those with power accountable. Just like the example from the New York Times... or the famous Pentagon Papers. It took a lot of guts for all parties to print that about the government... just for the sake of doing what's right.  But that is what this country is all about! That's why we have our independence! So people can question what our leaders are doing and have the freedom to question why things are the way they are.  And this is where the media can help raise this awareness and work together with the people they serve.

What is really interesting right now is the "List".  Many claim it was an infringement on private documents (as was the Pentagon papers) Others are claiming whistle-blowing on illegal activities.  It's a tough call, but it is interesting to see it play out. So far, the news stations and media all seem to be taking the same angle (worried about legal issues), but being in the newsroom you can see people definitely have opinions about what is going on, but are gearing more towards the neutrality side and even borderline siding with the state.  They are more worried about who put out the document (also like the Pentagon papers) instead of what has led up to this, what can be done to fix the problem, etc.  (I think I've gotten off topic... but it's just another example of what's going on today).

What I do agree with is that we do need to keep ourselves independent.  We need to be able to report on what is necessary without feeling like we need to walk on eggshells so that people won't stop advertising with us. I understand and know that money makes the world go round, but money shouldn't have the power to cover-up corruption or facts.  It's important that we have people willing to stand up for things that are right just because it's the right thing to do. Now... I hope I can take my own advise :)